John Starke of The Gospel Coalition (TGC) visits the program to talk about their website, the TGC Reviews, the TGC conference, and how they see themselves in relation to the church at large.
Participants: Camden Bucey, Jared Oliphint, John Starke
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I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naïve. (Romans 16:17-18)
The problem with Protestant attempts to form “Gospel coalitions” is that it is just a group of people who have read the bible and have come up with their own theologies and they get together to affirm one another without any reference or deference to the tradition of the Church. For the first 1500 years of the Church there were no Calvinists. Read for yourself what the Church Fathers taught about justification and the role of merit in salvation: http://www.churchfathers.org/category/salvation/reward-and-merit.
This discussion was very confusing in its purpose. I realize TGC is purposefully vague but I wonder what the overall purpose for groups like TGC are in anything more than just being overhyped.
Ben, woot. If you weren’t a theonomist we’d probably get along.
What I should add is that I find it very frustrating that TGC folks want to find instruction and counsel on how to engage the culture. But these same folks are not particularly interested in thinking through the doctrine of the church and what it may mean for operations like TGC. Nor do they seem to consider that if you actually get the church “right” you may actually be transforming the culture in very important and yet very invisible ways. The leaders of TGC should be pressing this upon their followers. But instead they seem more content to punt on ecclesiology.
And how is it exactly possible to have a gospel without a church (or an understanding of it). Doesn’t the church visibly embody the gospel?
My purpose here is not to defend everything TGC does, nor even to disagree with your conclusions. But let’s look at the following:
“But these same folks are not particularly interested in thinking through the doctrine of the church and what it may mean for operations like TGC.”
- What are specific examples of “them” doing just what you’re referring to? Are you referring to Justin Taylor? Kevin DeYoung? Thabiti? Tullian, a PCA pastor? Scotty Smith, another PCA pastor? Keller? Driscoll? Powlison? Dever? Where do they demonstrate their lack of interest in thinking through the doctrine of the church?
“And how is it exactly possible to have a gospel without a church (or an understanding of it)?”
- Are there specific examples of particular posts where they either explicitly or implicitly claim that it is possible to have a gospel ‘without a church’? Would they really claim that ‘a church’ is not necessary for the gospel or an understanding of it? Or if you see that statement as an implication from TGC’s structure or their lack of stated ecclesiology, why is it the case that a church-less gospel is a direct implication?
Again, not attempting to kick an online hornet’s nest, but I think sweeping statements that comment on a group’s lack of interest and lack of consideration need some specific examples that back up those statements.
Jared, you don’t think THE Gospel Coalition is sweeping in itself? I mean, if you’re not in THE Coalition, where are you in relation to the GOSPEL?
But aside from that, TGC claims to be a ministry and claims to do preaching and sacraments. Yet they are not overseen by an ecclesiastical body.
Invididual members of TGC do write about the church. But it has yet to inform the organization.
dgh,
We’d probably get along just fine even though I hold to theonomic principles.
Every time I read something by the Gospel Coalition they are preaching some novel doctrine one of them just thought up one afternoon and they all get together and awe over the nonsensical smatherings of some ecclesiastical renegade. The funniest one lately is the denial of the Tripartite distinction by Schreiner and Carson. I read both men and their arguments were complete trash. Guess the Jews were right all along, we Christians really have forsaken the law of God given to Moses. What a complete shame.
I’ve gotta say that this upcoming TGC conference on “Preaching Jesus and the Gospel from the Old Testament” is shameful. As somewhat deeply interested in Old Testament theology, I have to ask where aer the OT theologians or even OT biblical studies guys who could provide counsel in this regard? Shouldn’t we be looking to men who have poured significant portions of their lives into understanding the OT?
The list of contributors includes plenty of NT theologians, NT biblical studies specialists, pastoral theologians, systematic theologians, church historians, church planters, popular preachers and even a “church equity strategist,” but only Ray Ortlund Jr. has a Ph.D. in OT. I know that there is a shortage of Old Testament theologians and specialists in evangelical circles, but as it stands the conference should instead be titled “New Testament Specialists, Church Historians, Pastors and Planters Attempting to Preach the Old Testament Without Counsel.”
I was hearing D.G. Hart’s voice in my head as I listened to this.