Leonardo De Chirico and Mark Gilbert join the program to discuss the enduring significance of the Nicene Creed as it marks its 1700th anniversary. Drawing from their recent edited volume, The Nicene Creed: The Nature of Christian Unity and the Meaning of Gospel Words (Matthias Media), the guests explore how shared creedal language can mask deep theological differences, particularly between evangelical and Roman Catholic traditions.

Leonardo De Chirico is a pastor of a Reformed evangelical church in Rome, a scholar of Roman Catholic theology, and a leader in the Reformanda Initiative, which seeks to equip evangelical engagement with Roman Catholicism. Mark Gilbert serves as a chaplain in Sydney, Australia, and leads the ministry Certainty for Eternity, which focuses on evangelism among those from Roman Catholic backgrounds. Both men bring rich theological and pastoral insight to bear on the question of unity in Christ.

The conversation traces the origins of the creed, its Trinitarian framework, and the implications of confessing shared historical truths while diverging in doctrinal substance—especially concerning Christology, the church, and salvation. Leonardo and Mark also share personal insights from their ministries engaging Roman Catholics, underscoring the need for unity rooted in biblical truth rather than institutional alignment or superficial consensus.

This episode invites thoughtful reflection on what true Christian unity looks like in light of Scripture, and how the creeds function as faithful, yet insufficient, summaries apart from a Reformed understanding of the gospel.

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Chapters

• 01:11 Introduction
• 04:03 Background to the Book
• 11:27 Can We Have Meaningful Unity with Roman Catholics?
• 17:31 Unity in Truth
• 25:32 The Trinitarian Theology of the Creed
• 29:31 The Christology of the Creed
• 38:16 The Scope and Usefulness of the Nicene Creed
• 44:31 The Work of Christ
• 51:50 Pursuing Christian Unity
• 57:55 Conclusion

Participants: Camden Bucey, Leonardo De Chirico, Mark Gilbert

In this thought-provoking episode, we welcome back Dr. Leonardo De Chirico, a leading Reformed evangelical theologian and pastor in Rome, for a consideration of the legacy and ongoing influence of Thomas Aquinas. Drawing from his recent book, Engaging with Thomas Aquinas: An Evangelical Approach (Apollos), Dr. De Chirico offers a critical yet charitable appraisal of Aquinas’s theological architecture and enduring impact on Roman Catholicism.

Together, Camden and Leonardo explore key themes such as the Catholic Church’s dual nature—Roman and Catholic—the evolving role of Thomism across church history, and the tensions within Roman Catholic thought on Vatican II and modernity. Listeners will also hear how Protestants have historically interacted with Aquinas and why an eclectic, biblically grounded engagement remains vital today.

This episode offers not only theological clarity but pastoral wisdom for evangelicals navigating the complexities of tradition, authority, and theological retrieval in a post-Reformation world.

Links

• Leonardo De Chirico, Engaging with Thomas Aquinas: An Evangelical Approach (Apollos)
• Vatican Files
• The Reformanda Initiative
• Rome Scholars and Leaders Network
• The Reformanda Initiative podcast

Watch on YouTube.

Chapters

• 00:07 Introduction
• 11:09 Engaging with Thomas Aquinas
• 17:53 Thomas Aquinas’s Lasting Influence
• 29:07 Approaching Thomas Critically
• 37:00 Thomas as an Architectural Thinker
• 41:46 A Protestant Perspective
• 53:54 Five Guidelines for Evangelicals Engaging with Aquinas
• 58:53 Conclusion

Participants: Camden Bucey, Leonardo De Chirico

Leonardo De Chirico speaks about evangelical responses and assessments of Roman Catholicism post-Vatican II. Vatican II was an ecumenical council of the Roman Catholic Church held from 1962–1965 and widely interpreted as bringing the Catholic Church into a new relationship to the world and other religions.

De Chirico analyzes the several prominent evangelical scholars, including G.C. Berkouwer, Cornelius Van Til, and John Stott, in order to identify various strengths and weaknesses in evangelical perspectives on modern Roman Catholicism. De Chirico concludes that evangelicalism typically misses how two foundational aspects of Catholic theology (the relationship of nature to grace and a Christological ecclesiology) serve to undergird an entire theological system.

Leonardo De Chirico planted and pastored an Evangelical church in Ferrara (northern Italy) from 1997 to 2009. Since 2009 he has been involved in a church planting project in Rome and is now pastor of the church Breccia di Roma. He earned degrees in History (University of Bologna), Theology (ETCW, Bridgend, Wales) and Bioethics (University of Padova). His PhD is from King’s College (London) and it was published as Evangelical Theological Perspectives on Post-Vatican II Roman Catholicism (Bern-Oxford: Peter Lang 2003).

Participants: Camden Bucey, Jim Cassidy, Leonardo De Chirico