Comments on: The Nature of Apostasy in Hebrews 6 https://reformedforum.org/podcasts/ctc540/ Reformed Theological Resources Sat, 14 Jul 2018 02:40:31 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.5.2 By: David Behar https://reformedforum.org/podcasts/ctc540/#comment-3544438 Sat, 14 Jul 2018 02:40:31 +0000 http://reformedforum.org/?p=9561#comment-3544438 In reply to David Behar.

(In a convoluted sort of way, seeing that they wanted to turn back to a Judaism that was never their own to begin with)

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By: David Behar https://reformedforum.org/podcasts/ctc540/#comment-3544436 Sat, 14 Jul 2018 02:35:54 +0000 http://reformedforum.org/?p=9561#comment-3544436 Is the “jet way” principle also the main idea in Galatians 4:8-11?

Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? You observe days and months and seasons and years! I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.

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By: Phyllis Speed https://reformedforum.org/podcasts/ctc540/#comment-3541356 Thu, 24 May 2018 18:57:37 +0000 http://reformedforum.org/?p=9561#comment-3541356 In reply to Ben Mordecai.

I enjoyed your comments and I had not thought of many of the things you brought up. Thank you for taking the time to make your comments, it gives me a lot to think about.

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By: Phyllis Speed https://reformedforum.org/podcasts/ctc540/#comment-3541354 Thu, 24 May 2018 18:32:46 +0000 http://reformedforum.org/?p=9561#comment-3541354 Great program. I’ll be listening to it again. About 10 years ago I came to the same strong hunch that Apollos was the author of Hebrews and on the same basis as you cited. I also came to a conviction that the intended audience were converted Jews because of the content of the letter. It would be strange to be writing that content to Gentiles who converted from paganism. Pagan Gentiles would not have the background to even understand what is being said and it was not an issue for them to revert back to Judaism. I think the Letter of Hebrews was definitely to a converted Jewish audience. It also seemed to me that the danger of reverting back to a prior understanding that is argued against in Hebrews is a reversion back to Judaism. That the intended audience were converted Jews and that the danger warned of was reversion back to Judaism seems clear and convincing to me.

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By: Ben Mordecai https://reformedforum.org/podcasts/ctc540/#comment-3540777 Fri, 04 May 2018 22:17:57 +0000 http://reformedforum.org/?p=9561#comment-3540777 Brothers, there were many excellent insights in this episode on the passage. What I like about your position is that it arrives organically from the text. Since this is a classic “problem text” for reformed theology, it is especially important that the explanation makes sense within its own context as the most natural explanation for the argument as opposed to merely being an explanation that preserves the system.

One additional thought is concerning the harshness of the illustration the Author of Hebrews uses: Crucifying once again the Son of God and holding him up to contempt. While most of Hebrews views the crucifixion in light of the Old Testament sacrificial system purging sins definitively for his people and purifying the heavenly copies, from the human perspective, when Jesus was crucified it was on the ground that he was a false Messiah and a blasphemer.

If Jesus really were a false Messiah, there would have been valid grounds to crucify him as others were and their movements came to nothing. Just as Gamaliel recognized in Acts 5:36-37, people who falsely exalted themselves had their movements squashed by their executions. The Sanhedrin called for Jesus to be crucified specifically because of their unbelief. They thought that their position would be vindicated by the death of Jesus being the end. So to revert course and return to the Old Covenant is to judge Jesus as a false Messiah and blasphemer, which in essence renders the exact same judgment against him that his enemies did when they crucified him. This explains not only the crucifixion side of Hebrews 6:6, but also the “contempt”.

It is likely that the primary reason that these Hebrew Christians were tempted to revert to Judaism is because of the influence of the Judaizer parties who were dividing the church. They had already endured persecution (Hebrews 10:32-34), which, whether from Jews or Romans, would have ended if they reverted to the Old Covenant. So then, the author probably wants to establish firm theological, biblical grounds for being certain that the Old Covenant must be abandoned in favor of the New Covenant.

So then the Hebrews 6 warnings can integrate very naturally into the thrust of the whole letter. Likewise for us modern, primarily Gentile believers who are not often tempted to revert to Judaism, we can gain helpful warnings about reverting to any regressive soteriological views of all types (Roman Catholicism, Pelagianism, Universalism) as similarly holding the crucified Christ in contempt by rejecting the once-for-all atoing sacrifice of Jesus for our sins.

If in fact the point of the letter is to teach about the relationship of the testaments so that these Christians not be led astray back into the Old Covenant, then the Hebrews 6 warning can be warning those who experience the illumination of the Holy Spirit testifying to them the truthfulness of the gospel and deliberately reject it, just like we see in blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

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By: Tim Heinen https://reformedforum.org/podcasts/ctc540/#comment-3540776 Fri, 04 May 2018 21:24:34 +0000 http://reformedforum.org/?p=9561#comment-3540776 In reply to Tim Heinen.

In all seriousness, this was helpful. I think I may need to listen to it over again to better think through some of these things.

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By: Tim Heinen https://reformedforum.org/podcasts/ctc540/#comment-3540775 Fri, 04 May 2018 21:22:01 +0000 http://reformedforum.org/?p=9561#comment-3540775 “Messiah Mulligan” — Pastor Bucey, your next book?

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By: CM https://reformedforum.org/podcasts/ctc540/#comment-3540774 Fri, 04 May 2018 19:50:24 +0000 http://reformedforum.org/?p=9561#comment-3540774 Great insight on a tough passage. I would love to hear more though, on how this passage applies to those beyond first century Jews desiring to return to the types and shadows of the Mosaic covenant. If Machen was right in Christianity and Liberalism then “progressing” beyond biblical teaching into Modernism is not really progress at all, but a retrogression to the pagan past. This would seem to be an analogous (Gentile) equivalent to the sub eschatological unbelief found in the book of Hebrews.

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