I came to reformed theology late in the game of life as it were. I came to the Lord in Pentecostalism, but Christ has been so Gracious as to bring me into reformed faith.

That being said, I love reformed forum, very insightful. But reading this article on the differences between the OPC & the PCA & always learning new terms of the reformed faith, can you tell me the differences between evangelical & pilgrim theology in our approach to gospel preaching & witness?

Thanks so much.

Karen,
Please do not give up on the Church. While our sin has corrupted it in many ways, God is still building it and there will always be a remnant as the Lord has promised. I’m not saying this in judgement of the PCA, but I say this, that most OPC churches worship in a simple, scriptural and meaningful way: Confession, reading the Word, prayer, preaching the Word and sacraments, all of which there is no marketing or pandering to a new generation. In fact, we have many young couples in our church plant here in Oshkosh, WI and are grateful that the Lord continues to mercifully and graciously grow us into a congregation that loves Him and glorifies Him. Don’t stay home or give up on what the Lord is doing! Be a part of it! Not only are you missing out on fellowship and growth that the Lord wants to give you, but you are losing out on the rest and look to heaven that the Lord wants to give you on the Lord’s day!

I’m afraid it is that bad.

Yes it can…I see your post was months ago…but I am in same situation..I live in Central Texas in small town w/ 46 churchs …mostly Pentecostal/Baptist/Church of Christ & Charismatic…..I am spoiled from all the wonderful gifted pastors on Youtube…R.C Sproul/Derek Thomas/Ligon Duncan etc and cant hardly make myself go to the small fellowship of some Canadian ?…don’t really know what they are ? I ask when I first attended and they said…’well we just call ourselves Christians’??? They do however believe in election but do not hold to any confession of faith or creed? I love the all the people but there is NO pastor…everyone just meets and sits in Sanctuary reading verses in Bible aloud and then only the men can comment etc..which I am against women teaching men as well.! but when some young fellow makes a comment that is very unscriptural…no one says a word..totally ignore it and go to the next person reading aloud..+ it bothers me very much that in the sanctuary during this Service everyone is drinking coffee…which I believe is a disrespectful to the House of God….I want to belong to a Body of Believers in a Church but ???? not seeing one anywhere in my location or 100 miles….

I’m new to the OPC and I’m finding the polity to be very rigid. I’m really okay with the structure of Sunday worship, but there’s an issue I’m struggling with.

I came into this region from a Reformed Baptist congregation which was ‘called out on the carpet’ by a representative of the Southern Baptist Convention for having chairs, rather than pews, in their sanctuary, along with other fairly trivial issues. Never mind that the incredible expository teaching of our pastor, speaking the hardline truth, in love (albeit on occasion ‘tough love) which was fostering spiritual growth and an unusually high percentage of church ministry workers.

Some time ago, working back east and new to the region, I “visited” a Baptist church. When I parked my car I looked around at the families entering the sanctuary… men and boys dressed in slacks, wearing ties. Not wanting to command center stage in my jeans and western footwear, I slinked out of the parking lot to find another church. There was nothing wrong with what they were doing, but I was poor at the time and couldn’t afford to follow suit.

In the OPC I’m attending, the powers that be allow flute, trumpet and piano for worship, but heaven sakes, not a guitar! (Reflecting on someone’s comment below.) And there will be no choirs or special music, regardless of how appropriate (kids’ Sunday school specials are the exception). Okay, I’ll acquiesce, because the teaching and worship music is scripturally sound. There is however one formality I’m having difficulty accepting. Prior to our weekly communion, along with 3 other understandable criteria that should exist in a believers life, it is emphasized that attenders have to be a member of a Bible believing church in order to receive communion. To become a member here, there is a time span from a person’s 1st visit, extending through a period of appropriate pastoral instruction (whether formal or informal) that could last 2-3 months. This could leave a Bible believing visitor to experience a range of negative feelings and spiritual isolation. (I myself would have left.)Q: is there a scriptural mandate for such a rule?

Although having been qualified form membership for several months now, I have chosen to “ride” on the membership in my former church which, under my circumstances, my former pastor is keeping inactive until I request removal from the roll. As such I have been receiving communion. This is not a good situation and I’m reluctant to bringing it up, considering the formality of the leadership.

In summary I will be moving out of the region soon, yet, with all due love and respect for the truly wonderful church family and loving leadership here, I really don’t feel comfortable seeking out the OPC in the area I’m relocating to. I’m not against formal polity, when it is consistent with scripture, however I’m left with the feeling that OPC might be over emphasizing structure and/or process at the cost of something greater. – Your thoughts?

Jason: I think you are seeing a ban on a particular function in the OPC FOG (form of government), just because it is not called out in a specific manner. The OPC allows for assistant pastors and associate pastors. But it only happens in churches where the funding is sufficient. No one serves a ministerial or pastoral role (teaching elder/minister) without a call from an appropriate body, either a congregation or a Presbytery. Presbyter does not impose ministers. Presbytery is not a corporate bishop or bishop by committee (as a Roman or Anglican bishop). Presbyteries are required to examine the provisions of the call to make sure there is sufficient salary and benefits to provide a living for the minister (and his family!). In some cases you may have a man called to serve some capacity, such as at local church, in a part-time capacity, because he has a fully funded FT position.
The function and make of a given church’s trustees depends on that church’s Bylaws. Some churches incorporate, some don’t – depends on the benefits, drawbacks and or legal rules that differ across the 50 states.

The OPC FOG offers/protects various freedoms for the local church and its session

Also, it is true that the PCA is a member of WRF and the OPC is not. But the OPC is a member of the International Council of Reformed Churches while the PCA is not. We can debate which is a more robust expression of international Calvinism, but it is not fair to suggest that the OPC is ecumenically isolationist.

Then there is this quote from VanTil about his former student, EJ Carnell: “I fear I shall again have to appear ungracious in dealing with it. Perhaps I was brought into the world to be a nuisance to others.” Sometimes for better and sometimes for worse, that explains a lot of the ‘ethos’ pervading the OPC. VanTil’s fingerprint is all over the OPC still; the OPC views evangelicalism as a ‘nuisance’!

This article and all the comments are very helpful. I never could give an educated answer about the differences between the OPC and the PCA. Perhaps that’s why I was never quite sure why the OPC didn’t join the PCA during the time of “J&R” (and wasn’t quite sure which position to hold at the time). I knew that many of the OPC pastors and several OP churches joined the PCA after the OPC declined to do so.

There was quite a presence of more informal atmosphere congregations in the OPC prior to the mid-’80s. Several churches, the names of most of which begin with “New Life,” started out as OPC. They are much more lax in presentation/atmosphere, don’t use the Trinity Hymnal (though will sometimes sing hymns), and have guitars (and sometimes worship bands). Granted, when “J&R” (Joining and Receiving) provided the opportunity first for the RPCES and then the OPC to join with the PCA and the OPC declined, not only (as Sam Logan commented) did many OPC pastors choose to switch to the PCA but the New Life and other OP churches did as well. (Sam Logan made further comments about “J&R” which I also appreciated.)

Sean, thanks for mentioning the article. I enjoyed reading it. The quandary of ecumenism is significant, and I believe conservative Presbyterians need to devote more time and energy to meaningful ecclesiastical relations. I also appreciate your thoughts on Charlie’s taxonomy. Dennison was the OPC’s historian, but of course he doesn’t speak for everyone. Nevertheless, many of us find him to be a kindred spirit. Whether these dispositional differences can be overcome by a commitment to shared confessional standards is a question that has been asked and answered several times already. Perhaps there can be a day when it will be asked again.

For the others who may read this, Dennison identified the early era of the OPC and Machen as tragedy given the battle with the fundamentalists just after the formation of the OPC (then the PCofA). The era of the 1940s was “hope” because of the “remarkable but narrow victory in the 1940s over the visions of cultural Protestantism, championed by figures like Edwin H. Rian and Gordon H. Clark” (History for a Pilgrim People, 94). Stonehouse’s was the era of ambivalence because of a failure to act decisively to the subjectivism of the Peniel Controversy. It’s worth noting that Dennison includes Clowney and his evangelical and practical concerns in this era as well.

Reference: Sean Michael Lucas, “J. Gresham Machen, Ned B. Stonehouse, and the Quandary of Reformed Ecumenicity,” WTJ 62 (2000) 197–222.

To clarify, I am speaking about assitant pastors – pastors who are not called by the congregation but instead by the session, and who do not serve on session, not associate pastors.. This position is mentioned in many places in the PCA BCO, even outlining what should be said when they are ordained/installed. The OPC never mentions Assistant pastors and in teh BCO when it talks about pastors it says: “Christ’s undershepherd in a local congregation of God’s people, who joins with the ruling elders in governing the congregation, is called a pastor.” It also states that ministers are only called by the congregation if they are serving the congregation (ministers can be called by presbytery or general assembly ” for work not related to any one particular congregation” (FOG 12.1) To me this makes it clear that it is not allowed, while the PCA specifically makes rules to allow it.

jason, can you provide a source for the OPC not allowing assistant pastors? My OPC congregation has had several assistant and associate pastors over the years.

A couple of the OPC churches in my presbytery have guitars and do not use the hymnal, and I know of OPC churches in other ares that are the same. I would agree with the first two points of you know what you get, with the middle point (scripturall-solid teaching) being the most important one.

I loved the way you ended your comment…”and guitars”. I got a laughed out of that one. 🙂

With PCA it’s usually the opposite: lax structure, illustration-heavy topical teaching. And guitars.

Of course, there are exceptions in both the PCA and OPC on the matters presented. Trying to compare both denominations is indeed difficult without some generalizing.